Richstenna's Story

“To see my son walk away in handcuffs, with what he was faced with, at that moment I think I was in shock because the emotions didn't just set in. I'm watching it unfold, but I can't feel yet… It took me a day or so to soak in what just happened. It took me through an emotional rollercoaster. I was a mess. I was a mess. I was in deep depression, seriously, crying, just blaming myself. I didn't know how to deal with it.”

Richstenna Thomas has raised three sons, who were ages 14, 17, and 19 when we recorded her story. She lives with her oldest just south of the Sherwood Forest neighborhood in Memphis.

Her quote, above, describes the day her 14 year-old was arrested by homicide detectives and taken from her home. He was committed in the juvenile system to serve five years at Wilder Youth Development Center. Her 17 year-old also spent some time at Wilder. Three weeks after he was released, he was arrested again. This time, he was charged as an adult, and he was sentenced to two years in the Department of Corrections.

She worries about the depression that both of her incarcerated sons are facing, and she recognizes the importance of counseling for her entire family as they are going through this time.

Interview with Richstenna, conducted by Joann Self Selvidge for The Juvenile Project (TJP) on April 09, 2019 in Memphis, Tennessee.

Joann: First of all, tell me your name.

Richstenna: Richstenna Thomas.

Joann: Okay. Tell me why you wanted to share your story even before we get into the details.

Richstenna: I felt like it need to be heard. It's a lot of cases similar to mine. It's just something needs to be done, someway, somehow. I believe the first way to start it is by voicing it. So, here's my voice.

Joann: Tell me a little bit about... Tell me just a little bit about your personal background and kind of up to where we are now before we kind of get into talking about your children and their experiences.

Richstenna: Okay. I'm originally from California, born and raised, Oakland. I am the last of three. Mother and father were together, married in '82 and divorced. Moved out here as a summer home. Had a grandmother out here, which was my dad's mother's mother, or which was my great grandmother. Moved out here, he took care of her back and forth.

So, started as a summer home. We would come out here, take care of our businesses out here. He had a company on Winchester, a laundry mat. And a company in California, a laundry mat. So, we were operating both in the meantime.

She passed away in '91. He permanently moved out here and that was... He stayed out here until his death in 2000. That was the reason of me being down here as a resident. It went from summer home to being a resident. I had pretty much ever since.

Joann: How old were you when you actually kind of moved here permanently?

Richstenna: In my teens.

Joann: Okay.

Richstenna: In my teens and have been here since then.

Joann: Did you go to high school here?

Richstenna: I did. I went to Hawkins Mill, Georgian Hills, Delano, and during this time, this was during the time of being summer home and come out here, go to summer for a year, maybe even throughout the school year. Be in school for a year, go back home for a year, two, three. Same thing out here.

So, I did go to Delano, went to Raleigh-Egypt, I went to Georgian Hills. Spent at Georgian Hills from seventh through ninth and there was an incident back in '97 that happened at Georgian Hills where it was a school shooting. I was one of the kids that was involved in that school shooting.

It was me and another guy. He was hospitalized. Thank God I was able to be able to get shot in the leg and go to a hospital, get stitched up, and come home. Transferred to Raleigh-Egypt. That's where I spent my high school years at, the rest of my high school years at, at Raleigh-Egypt.

Joann: Wait. How old were you when you got shot?

Richstenna: 14.

Joann: 14.

Richstenna: Yeah, about 14.

Joann: What was the recovery?

Richstenna: September '97. It was a bullet wound to the lower leg. It was in my calf. They were able to discharge the bullet from my calf. It was actually more or less not the bullet, just like a fragment. It had ricocheted and hit a couple of other things. I'm kind of a weird little person. I kept it.

It was like just kind of torn up, but you could tell it's a bullet because it's strapped. But it's a bullet and it was lodged in my leg. They removed it, stitched me up and I was able to go. Yeah.

It was involving a neighborhood turf thing. Just so happened after school, wrong place, wrong time, young, supposed to be going one way, went where the crowd was going, got caught up. Seriously, when they say don't follow the crowd, don't follow the crowd. You don't run to trouble. You run away from trouble.

But I followed and gun fires rang out, I began to run and I kind of remember looking back and as I looked back I noticed the guy that got hit, hit the ground. I didn't feel my injury, I just felt like a pebble or a rock hit me. So, I kept going. I'm good.

Later somebody tell me, "You're bleeding." I remember saying, "Where?" That's the first thing I remember looking. "I don't see any blood, I'm good." "The back of your leg." So, I turned and looked. I'm like, "Wow, I'm bleeding." I wasn't crying, it didn't hurt. I guess the adrenaline shock or whatever, it didn't hurt.

It didn't take long for me to recuperate. It didn't. It really didn't. It healed fine. Everything was all right. I do remember going through a court process in between time of that. Yeah. But it all worked out well.

Then I ended up, like I said, about '98, '99, I ended up moving to Florida because I ended up meeting high school, junior high school sweetheart, which actually turned out to be my oldest son's father. Ended up meeting him.

He was kind of a little street guy, a little hood guy. Ended up meeting him. Ran away from home. Okay, let me kind of back up. [When I was] 11 my mom passed. When she passed that kind of just tore my world. I just stopped caring, stopped caring. Yes meant no, no meant yes. I'm going to do... Fuck you. Seriously it just did something.

From that point I just started wilding, just doing the most. I wasn't a promiscuous girl. I was raised by a strong male, you know what I'm saying. My mom she was very educational. She was like the all American mom. My dad was the dad. He did play the dad role, she played the mom role.

All my foundation, and all my structuring and all of that came from him. The mothering, the nurturing, came from her. I had this strong male figure in my life that… wow, he... Let me see how can I say that. He was my hero. Let me say it like that.

I strongly looked up to my dad even though I did what I did. I was just mentally I wasn't in the right frame of mind. So, when I... During the time of her passing, I just from 11 1/2 to 17 because I got pregnant with my oldest at 17 and had him at 17.

Between those years it was just like whatever, whatever, whatever. When I finally found out I was a mother, that moment, and I used to hear stories when they'd say you don't know when you get pregnant. Oh, you do. That moment you do. Your body begins to... You feel it. You can be in denial but you feel your body shifting and changing and manifolding. You feel that, that moment.

Okay. I got pregnant at 17, all those wild things just went out the window. It did. It was like I can't do this. I can't do this. This is not the life for a child, I can't do this.

It kind of made me have to suck up all the hurt, because I never really got over it. I didn't go through counseling to get over my mom's death. It was just a self-heal process, and that's not good. It doesn't always work out the best way, self-healing.

At that point in time it was more or less, okay, soak it all up, push on for the kid. Within all that recklessness - that was a cry for help. I was trying to express “I'm hurting, I'm grieving,” but didn't know how to verbally just come out and say, "Hey, look, help me."

I had to learn to be a verbal person. I always kept all my feelings and emotions in. Had my son and just calmed down. Ended up moving... My father passed away when he was six months. There goes another blow. He passed away and it was...

Only thing that really kept me sane and to be able to function was my child. Other than that, I think I would have went back the other way. So, I still wasn't mentally right, but I was strong enough to be able to mother children and deal with my own depressions at the same time, seriously.

So, I had him, ended up six months later, my father passed. About I think 15 months later, I met my second son's father. Which my second son is now in Jail East. He got caught up in the juvenile system when he was 16. Physically in the system at 16, shy before his 16th birthday. Turned 17 in the judiciary system and was bound over to Jail East in January of this year.

I had him and turned around quickly. My kids were kind of back-to-back, between 12 months, 11 months apart. Turned around and got pregnant again. I'm still kind of going through things because now, his father.

Now this is where my story just ... Because I'm dealing with losing my parents, becoming a mother, and dealing now I meet a guy who wow, takes advantage of everything, my young age, I'm 19 by this age. I'm 19. Takes advantage of my young age, parents passing, about to come into a little money, just a whole collaboration of different things.

He taught me what it feels ... My dad taught me what it's like to be loved by a man. How I'm supposed to be loved by a man. This guy taught me what it was like of game and trickery and manipulation. He at the time was 27 and I was 19. He lied about his age and a lot of just... basically the whole thing that I called a relationship was based off of lies.

So I met him. Took me through a lot of emotional, another emotional rollercoaster. Up and down rollercoaster. Had kids outside of him-and-I type thing. I ended up having three kids by this guy. After kid three it was... Well yeah, in the midst of kid three it was just like God was like okay, I told him I can't do this anymore I just...

When I said that, that's the day, about 2004, I want to say between 2004 and 2006 when I did finally tell him because my last son was born in 2004. The last time he saw him or was involved in his life was when he was about 10 or 11 months old.

So, when I did finally tell him that I couldn't do this anymore, that's when he decided to just cut all ties. I always left the door of opportunity open for him to be involved in his kids' life, he never took it. He's in Fayette County. So, what's your excuse? None. It doesn't take much gas, time, money, anything to ride here.

So, that's where me being a single mom for 19 years, because my oldest son is 19 now, has been taking place. Within that time, of course, I had to work. I wasn't always able to work because a lot of times I wasn't able to have child provider services for my children.

At that time, a lot of kids who were in daycare were being left on buses. So it was like, no, I can't work. I'm not going to work. Seriously, I'm going to watch my kids. So, a lot of times either I wasn't working and the times that I wasn't working, they needed it.

I don't have family. Like I said, my mom and dad is gone. I do have sisters, don't get me wrong, but we're all in a boat - with one oar. Let me say it like that. So, I couldn't.

When my kids did need... I do remember stealing a lot of things for them, a lot of things. Do I regret it? I regret the actions it took me to do it. I don't regret me having to do it because it was priceless to see my kids Christmas, whatever, whatever, happy. No, I don't trade that party. I don't.

But yeah, I did have to sacrifice and do a lot of things at that time that was sketchy. It was dangerous because I could have got thrown in jail. That means I would have been taken away from my kids. That means they wouldn't have had another parent. They already had one. No.

So yeah, God was good. He had grace, mercy on me throughout my whole life. You know seriously, throughout my whole life, and if it wasn't for Him, I could be in a worse boat.

My 14 year old, he's a sweetheart. He's my baby. He is a big baby. He is like 5'11, 5'9, 150 lbs. He's a big baby, but he's a sweetheart. He got caught up in dealing with these streets. There's time, like I said, there was times where I had to work, times where I couldn't work. The times where I had to work, it put my oldest son in a predicament of having to watch his brothers. I think he was like 11 when I started.

He has a brother three years younger than him, and then he has the brother right underneath him. So, yeah, it made him grow up fast and be more responsible. But it also opened a door or opportunity for them to get into things that they weren't supposed to get into, at the same time.

It was only so much he could do as an 11 year-old to monitor two other little kids. There were times where me being at work - and I'd try to always make sure I work a day shift. [When] I'm getting off, you got maybe two hours before I get off, I'm coming right behind you.

I would kind of always make it work that way. There was times where I might have to pull a night shift. I'm getting off at 11:00. My 17, at the time he wasn't 17, now 17 year-old son, we were staying in Binghampton at the time. That's where he was born and raised. He would get into the streets. Go out the door and he would always come in about 9:30. It would always be 9:00, 9:30.

I was an old school parent. I have a young age but an old soul. I believe in street lights, and I believe in all of those good old traditions. I do. I was mad as a kid having to follow those rules. But growing up, I had to realize it taught me a lot. I thank my parents. I thank them. I'm thankful for the experience. So, I was the type of parent when those street lights come on, you need to be in. He would always drag in when the street lights were already on. It was always 9:30, nine o'clock. No.

I was just a firm believer in a lot of old school traditions. It worked for me. That was my model. So hey, if it didn't kill me, it made me strong, what's wrong with it. So, yeah. To me, the way the new age was going, it definitely wasn't working. So it was ... But I also felt like in time, it made me feel like the things I was doing to try to prevent them from getting into things, pushed them further into getting into things when it was trying to... when I was actually just trying to stop them.

So, he ended up getting mixed up with the wrong people eventually. Because he was a mama's boy. All of them really pretty much are spoiled mama's boys. My 17 year-old… he still sleeps with a teddy bear and is afraid of the dark.

So, it's like come on. You're babies. You're a baby. My 14 year-old stopped sleeping with me when he was nine, and that's because I made him. Seriously, you're a baby, what are you doing? It's like you guys aren't... This isn't... You're not about that life. You created an image for yourself, but that's not the image that who you are.

Seriously, it's just they got mixed up with the wrong people and made a lot of wrong choices and kind of forgot where they came from. When you forget where you’ve come from you've strayed. You forgot where you came from, because that's not what I'm about, that's not who I am, that's not where I raised you to be.

I believe in the sky is the limit. To me I had to change that, because I used to believe in the sky is the limit. There is no limit to the sky. So, how is the sky the limit? So, your possibilities are endless. That's my motto with my kids. That was my teaching, my upbringing.

So, it was like you completely did a 360 on everything I taught you and instilled, and the choices you made were totally wrong, totally against how you were supposed to be, and how you're supposed to judge or view things and represent things. It was just like wow. I do remember, and I try to relate.

I'm not a one-sided person. I'm optimistic, and I do believe in looking at all aspects of a situation seriously... and I don't like to be judgmental, because I can’t just put my opinion on something.

So, I sit back, and I try to understand some of the things on why they made the decisions and sometimes I can understand, and sometimes it's just like, I can't. I don't understand. That's pretty much where I am today.

Joann: Tell me... You have how many children?

Richstenna: I actually have biologically I have four.

Joann: You have four.

Richstenna: My third son at the time, and I did kind of bypass that, my third son… Like I said, at this time I'm not working, and it was just getting... The father was no help. I ended up having a conversation with him, I don't even know how the conversation came about.

But he kind of put out there for me to allow his sister, one of his older sisters at the time, and she still can't have kids, she wanted to help us, and that's what it was supposed to be. So, I allowed my third son, my second and my third son to go stay with her.

My second son was so used to him and I, he didn't want to go with anybody. So, the first night he was away, he cried. We brought him back the next day. My third son was just six months old at the time, so therefore, he could stay with anybody.

Okay, he ended up staying with her. She was really ... It was supposed to be more or less of a help thing, I need to get on my feet, I'm going through this. Take these kids for me. I'll keep these kids, you take these kids, I just need to get myself together.

It didn't work out that way. She played in a part of a lot of manipulation too, because now as I got older, I start to sit back, and it started to unfold, and the way it unfolded it was like yeah, they screwed me over.

It was like I said, I wasn't going to go through any kind of legal system or anything, just take my child and help. Okay. She came, she was married, came to me, her and her husband decided that we should go through juvenile court, set up the process of her having custody. So, in case - her words was, if anything goes wrong, if he had to be rushed to a doctor, just anything goes wrong, then they have the consent to take him.

Okay. In my mind that sounded right. That sounded like that's the right approach to go. I went with that. But all along, with me going with that, it didn't play out that way. I would always… at one point in time I didn't have a vehicle, so I would rent a car from Enterprise.

I would rent a car every weekend from Enterprise just to go out to Fayette County to go see my son. I would go out there and sometimes I would notice, well kind of toward the end of the visitations of me coming out there, I would notice the behavior change. She was, when I met her, she was warm and open and loving. Then it started turning into her kind of being cold and silent. So, it was like hmm. I didn't think too much about it.

But shortly after that, there was no communication. I would call the phone, nobody would pick up. They had an answering machine. It started with the phone not picking up the answering machine, which I thought was odd, because her answering machine always picks up.

So, the phone would just ring. Then it went from it just ringing to the number not being existed. She had once told me she was going to move, but when they did move it was... I didn't get the memo. Let me say it like that. She did tell me at one point, but I didn't get the forwarding address. I didn't get anything.

She just upped and moved. My son is with her. She just upped and moved. I don't have any contacts. So, it was like, you were supposed to help me, but you didn't really kidnap legally because you did the legal way, but you didn't legally kidnap my child. Seriously? My child is still out there, and she keeps him away from family. He doesn't know nothing about me. It was supposed to be you're always going to be aunt, I'm always going to be mom. But he called her mom. He doesn't know me.

So, it's like yeah you duped me, but you legally did it. She played it right.

Joann: So, she got a guardianship but did not give you parental rights or any of that.

Richstenna: It was like wow. I remember calling her, you know what I'm saying, when I finally did because I had to... It took me years and it was just like... I ended up getting in touch with my now 17 year-old son, ended up getting in touch with his father. His father didn't reach out to him, he got in touch with his father. He got the number of his sister. I ended up calling, and getting in contact with her, I talked to her and I'll never forget, when I talked to her I basically told her I want my son back. That was the last conversation I had with that lady. The last conversation I had with that lady. It's like wow.

So, I got a child that doesn't know me. I think about that. It's like eventually, it's going to come to light. Everything done in the dark comes to the light. You're eventually going to want to know who you are. You're eventually going to know that this isn't my real mother. You're eventually going to want to know where you come from. That has to come out.

I just don't want it to be, and if it does, I'm willing to accept it. I'm willing to accept if he has any anger, and I'm willing to accept that it's going to hurt, but I'm willing to accept that because it's not going to be his fault. He was denied everything he needed to know.

But if it is, I'm willing to accept whatever comes that way, whenever it happens, because God's going to make a way to where one day my son and I will be reunited, really. I do believe that in my heart. I do. I really do. But yeah she just...

Joann: How old is he now?

Richstenna: He's 15. Because all three of them are from the same [father]: 17, 15, and 14.

Joann: Okay.

Richstenna: Yeah, so he's 15 on May 20th. He'll be 16. It's the truth, because him and my 14 year-old, you would think they were twins. They look just alike. Just alike, to the fact that the irony is so creepy to me. It's like wow, God, wow. Wow.

Seriously, yeah but they are... But from my understanding he's doing exceptionally good in school. He's an exceptional kid. He's in sports.

Joann: His brothers kind of are able to find a way to keep tabs, or you keep tabs through his dad?

Richstenna: His brother can't get in touch with him. He kind of knows where they are, through their father. But she's keeping him so confounded. Like I said, when they have family functions she doesn't go around the family functions.

She keeps him away from all of their family functions. Anything that has anything to do with tying him into who he really is, she's not going to do. She'll take him to her events that has nothing to do with his side of the family. You understand what I'm saying. Other side of the family. But as long as it's something dealing with her husband’s side of the family, she's for it, but anything dealing with his father, that's going to tie him into me, she's a no go. Nothing.

I found out he went to school one year with - because they have a large family. Fayette County is not that big, you're pretty much related to everybody out there. Everybody knows everybody. He went to school one year with I think, a cousin.

Somehow another boy came out saying you're my cousin. My son got offended and fought the little boy. You see what I'm saying? It ended up turning physical because of her lies, but in actuality that was actually his family. But he was getting mad because no, you're not my family or you're not whatever. I think it was his cousin. You're not my cousin.

The little boy telling him, "Yeah, I am your cousin. Your people are such and such." "No, those aren't my people."

Joann: Well let's talk about your three sons who've always been with you.

Richstenna: Okay.

Joann: Obviously we're here, you said your oldest is in Jail East right now?

Richstenna: No, that's my 17 year-old.

Joann: Oh, your 17 year-old. Okay. Since this is about justice involvement, I guess let's start and kind of talk about each of them and their personalities and kind of what your first experience with him was in terms of them kind of just who they are individually, just as people and what they're into.

But then kind of what it was that you've had to deal with in terms of justice involvement with them.

Richstenna: Okay. My 14 year-old KevJuan, like I said that's my baby son. And like I said he's the baby. He's a sweet child. He's helpful. He's pretty much, well at the time, pretty much to himself kind of kid. He was into the things that his older brothers did. His older brother used to like to draw, so he used to like to draw. He used to like the skateboard, so he used to like the skateboard.

He's kind of in a mix of really, he doesn't really have his own personality per se. He does, but he loves to do what his brothers do. He got into sports because his 17 year-old brother would just, the one that's in Jail East now, he got into sports, and loves sports.

He likes to play football. He likes sports. He's really into sports. Like I said, he's very quiet. He's to himself, but he's sweet. He's helpful. He was the type of kid when I'm cleaning up, he'll get a broom and clean up too. When I'm picking something up, he'll go try to help me. If I'm in there cooking, he's trying to stand there, and he likes to eat too.

So, either he's trying to learn how to cook so he could feed himself, or he's trying to learn how to cook so he could feed everybody. But he loves to cook. In school he could be, he chooses not to be, he could be a good student. He can do good. He has the potential to do good. He really does.

He's intelligent. He has bright ideas. He likes to be involved in school functions and outside functions with community centers. So, like I said, he does have a big heart.

My 17 year-old is the same way. Very thoughtful, very thoughtful. Always putting somebody else first. That's what I love about him, because no matter what, he checks on me when I'm not feeling good. He knows when I'm not feeling good. He knows when I'm going through something. He's like my, I don't know, he's almost like my conscience or something.

He knows how to lift my spirits. He knows how to say the right thing at the right time. They're sweet young men. They ended up, like around, well with my 14 year-old, around I want to say pretty much middle school. Within his middle school years, he's just now reaching high school. But within his middle school years, that's when I kind of started noticing the difference within his behavior, his actions.

Got dealing with the wrong people. Went from dealing with a kid that was doing well in school to dealing with the troublemaker kid in school. He started as far as with juvenile, he didn't get involved until 2018, if I'm not mistaken, the end of 2017. No, 2017 if I'm not mistaken.

That's when he kind of started getting in trouble as far as now... Those were times where I had to call... last year I started having to call the police on him because he would now, like I said, don't come in when these street lights come on. Okay, there's going to be an issue. I'm not going to go out there looking for him. I'm not going to do that. I'm just not.

I started calling the police. He started running away. You don't come in at night, you come home the next day you ran away. To me, I'm calling the police. That's what it is. So, last year I started having to call the police on him. That's when he just really kind of got in the system.

Then when he started, he ended up getting into a gang when he was 13. He ended up getting jumped into a gang and I found that out months later. Then that's kind of when the shift in the things that he was doing were escalating, stealing more.

He was kind of always the little kid. He did steal. He was a little klepto. But it began to get worse. Get a call at work one day, he's in trouble. He's supposed to be at football practice, and he's caught at Family Dollar, stealing from Family Dollar. So, it was starting to escalate. That was last year.

So yeah, it was kind of like it escalated fast, and it snowballed after that. Same with my 17 year-old. Man he started about I think 12, maybe 11, 12, 13 in the system. He was in a gang since 11, so his on the other hand, started quicker.

It started on a different scale than my baby son. He was doing a lot more than my baby son, it seemed like to me. He was trespassing on properties and allegedly at that time, but I know that didn't happen because I actually was with him that day, but it's on his record, 2014, if I'm not mistaken, they said he broke into a building, burglarized a building.

His stuff was just it was a matter of time before he actually got caught and sentenced. Let me say it like that because he was getting slapped on the wrist, getting those citations.

So, it started then, and it didn't stop until he went to Jail East - or juvenile and then they bound him over to Jail East last year. Same with my son, the 14 year-old, it didn't stop until he got a murder charge and was sent to juvenile this year.

The situation happened November. No, Christmas Eve 2018 and they picked him up from home in January 2019, and he's been there since. My 17 year-old was locked up two days before Thanksgiving of 2018, and he had just got out from an aggravated burglary charge that he did nine months on. He was just out for three weeks, and he ended up going back November of last year, and has been there ever since, and that's where they are today.

Joann: Your 14 year old is in juvenile detention, and the 17 year old?

Richstenna: He went to juvenile. They sent him down here to juvenile in Memphis. He stayed down there a few months, then they shipped him off to Nashville and from Nashville he stayed out there for a month, then went on and put him at Wilder. So right now he's in Wilder where he'll be until, they say until he's 19, unless there's good behavior in between that. But other than that, till he's 19.

Joann: But it is in juvenile centers.

Richstenna: Detention centers.

Joann: Yeah. So, they're not...

Richstenna: He's in DCS custody.

Joann: Okay. He's in DCS. So, he's not going to be bound over to the adult system.

Richstenna: Not that I know of as of now, right, because they said he's there till he's 19, and I guess once he's 19, then they'll release him, so he won't be. Right, so he won't be bound over. That was a good thing, because his charge was dropped from, it was gosh, it was facilitation of murder, murder in the first degree one count, another count of murder in the first degree, one count of aggravated robbery, one count of special aggravated robbery... He had about five, six counts. But it was dropped down to it's no longer murder, I think he just has the special aggravated robbery charge now.

Right. So he's been blessed in that area, because it could have been longer than just until he's 19, seriously, because he could be gone for life, and you just have a few years to be gone. So, you need to count your blessings on that too, seriously.

One person of course died and one person survived with injuries. I actually saw the guy.

Joann: The victim?

Richstenna: The victim. I was able to see him. Didn't know I was seeing him. Just at the same place, at the same time. God he works in mysterious ways, he really does, because just as I was walking, my eyes just so happened to land on this person for whatever reason, and I just kind of for a few seconds just watched this person.

Come to find out, that person I just so happened to be watching was the victim. Yeah. I was able to see them. I of course didn't say anything to them. My lawyers told me it was best not to say anything, because I wanted to send out apology. I'm so sorry, seriously. I feel bad. I didn't do it, but that was my son, I feel bad.

But they were saying it was best for me not to... They felt that it would send a... how they put it, it would be more, like not a stalking thing, but I forgot how they put it. It was like, okay, I'll leave it at that.

Joann: Tell me a little bit. Tell me about dealing with the lawyers. Tell me about when you found out about ... Because there's this whole process where it's like as a kid who's going through it, they're experiencing it firsthand, they're the ones who are in the situation. They're the ones who are getting arrested, getting the cops talking and all that stuff.

So as a mother, how soon were you able to be in the process? Were you able to go down and speak to either of them? I guess before they actually when they were in pre-trial detention, like how soon did you get a chance to speak to their attorneys and work with them?

Richstenna: It all happened very fast. My 14 year-old, he was kind of like in the midst of not being at home and being at home in the midst of that happening. So, when I found out, I didn't find out through lawyers, I found out because two MPD police officers came to my door in January. I was getting myself ready for work. So, I was kind of nervous because I had just dealt with a little incident myself, so I was kind of... I went on and opened the door and when they asked me for my son, I'm not going to lie, my heart just - it burst.

They didn't tell me what they were looking for or came for. But you're coming to my door, so I know that's not good. I told them he wasn't here, which he wasn’t. I told him he wasn't here. They were like, "Okay." I think they came and asked can they come and look? Okay.

So I let them look. It wasn't until he came home that day. He ended up coming home that day. Two hours later, two homicide detectives came. Now, that's where the emotions really kind of took a turn because I can pretty, I can deal with it with it just being the police coming. I can deal with that. I can deal with that.

I know that kind of sounds bizarre, but I can deal with that. Homicide, FBI, US Marshall, CIA - I can't deal with that. You understand what I'm saying? That's a whole ‘nother level. So, when I opened the door, it was two homicide detectives there, they greeted, they sat, they asked about my son. At this point what's going through my head is now - you're in plain clothes, I just had two clothed officers, now you're in plain clothes. So now my emotions are kind of running high.

They tell me that they're there. We sit down and discuss what's going on. At that time, my son wasn't here. I ended up going somewhere and coming back. But in the midst of me coming back, I ended up running into my son. They told me when he gets here to call them. That's kind of hard to do as a parent.

It's hard to even call the police and say, "Hey, my son is being disorderly or ran away from home," let alone to call in a situation where somebody's life has been endangered or taken away. That's hard to call and tell the police my son is here, because you know they're going to come get him.

I had to make that call once he got here, that they were here. So, when I finally called they came and got him. To see my son walk away in handcuffs, with what he was faced with, at that moment I think I was in shock because the emotions didn't just set in. I'm watching it unfold, but I can't feel yet.

It took me a day or so before just - soaking in what just happened. It took me through an emotional rollercoaster. I was a mess. I was a mess. I was in deep depression, seriously, crying, just blaming myself. I didn't know how to deal with it.

It was like I was in that situation, because that's my child, but people kept telling me it's not... Yeah, it's not me there, but it is me there, seriously. It hurt. It hurt. It was a lot to take in. It took me a minute for me to be able to grasp it all, seriously. It was like a movie. It wasn't real. It didn't...

When I did talk to the lawyers, like I said, I was in contact with them pretty quick. They did. Except for my 17 year old, I had to kind of... His lawyer didn't reach out as quick as he should have. He should have reached out a lot quicker and informed me on a lot more of what was going on versus me either finding out on my own or whatever.

Joann: Did you know what rights you had in these situations? Could you have ... I think about police officers coming to your door, and you think well I can't tell them they can't come in or whatever. Did you?

Richstenna: One thing I've learned as a colored lady, as a colored women, the world is going to feed you just so much for you to get by. Everything else after that you have to self-educate yourself. If you want to get beyond this system that has been whitewashed before the land of time.

So, I self-educate myself. I pretty much know my law, not to say I know all the law, but I pretty much know where I stand. A police officer you're not going to get too much over me too quick. Not too quick. You might because you went to school. You went personally, you're involved in it, I just study it because I need to know it for myself.

You need to know because that's your job and that's what it maintains you to acquire you to know. But I need to know because I'm a black lady and in this world it's not fair. It's just not for a black lady, a black man or a person of color, it's not fair and we need to know all that we need to know in order for us to make it in this world.

So, I have to self-educate myself. So, when they do come, it's not like I'm not the one that you can just run over. I know. I know. I know my amendment rights. So, you don't think you can just come here and just feed me information, because what he...

No, because as a matter of fact, that's the thing, they were standing here and I think he kind of mentioned something about searching. I was like, "Don't you need a search warrant for that?" Hey, don't think I'm just dumb. I stay in the projects but I'm not project. I come from a very strong background. Where I stay doesn't determine who I am. So please don't judge a book by its cover by a long shot.

He kind of looked like oh. Yeah. A warrant. That's when he came back, "Well that's why I'm asking you can I search." No you didn't ask me, you said you're going to search. But since now that you asked, sure, go ahead, you could search.

I'm not really too worried about them getting... Like I said, it's things that I don't know. But that's when I can ask, isn't this supposed to be this way? or am I supposed to go about it this way? or should I do things this way, if I don't know. But if I do know, then I'm going to go ahead and pursue with the way I should go about it.

But I don't think, like I said, I do believe that if I didn't have the little knowledge I did have, I could have been rail-roaded. I do believe that. Yeah. They could have took it... Yeah, they could have.

Joann: In these types of situations, they think that their authority is going to be able to get them and let them do whatever they want to do.

Richstenna: Exactly. Exactly.

Joann: I'm curious too, because it's different they almost never read the kids their Miranda rights.

Richstenna: Right.

Joann: And even if they do, the kids they're not going to be like, "Oh, I don't have to answer you," whatever.

Richstenna: Right. I think he did because with my 14 year-old right here, I think he did that because I was right there. I think that's the only reason why he did that. He did read him his rights and yeah because I was waiting on that part.

When he pulled them handcuffs out, because yeah that's what I was waiting on. I'm not going to lie. I was waiting on that.

Joann: Did you tell your son not to say anything, or to wait until an attorney came or did you just say, did you ask the police officers, like how soon am I going to be able to... I'm just kind of curious.

Richstenna: I did. They pretty much told me.

Joann: They had to book him. What the process was.

Richstenna: The process, right. From here they was going to pick up the transportation car, they was going to contact me within an hour. So, letting me know where he's at and what's going on from there.

After that, I will be getting called. That's when the regular phone calls from lawyers just start coming in. A lawyer that was either appointed to him or if I had a lawyer myself, you know what I'm saying.

In the first beginning, yeah, it was we had court-appointed lawyers. At this point, I am looking to get a personal lawyer on my own. But they told me… That I could after they did that, after they called me that he'll be going to court that following morning because it was a weekday, so he'll be going to court that following morning, then that's when I was able to just really see him.

But from the time he left here up until the next day, there was no contact. They read him his rights at home. I'm pretty much, I don't know, I didn't tell him not to say anything because I'm like this, if you're wrong, you're wrong.

Joann: When you were in shock. You were just like OMG. They were like, we're homicide detectives.

Richstenna: Right, right, seriously. It was kind of hard.

Joann: I'm sure you weren't thinking about any of it. I was just kind of...

Richstenna: Right.

Joann: Because in most circumstances officers of the law are supposed to make people aware of their rights before they go trampling all over them or what have you. In these types of circumstances, particularly with young people, I'm just really curious how your experience has been with your contact with the police officers, with your contact with the courts, with your contact with the attorneys.

In many cases, obviously when you have a court appointed attorney, sometimes they got a million things and they don't follow up with you like you said.

Richstenna: They just going to see him as a file number. Yeah. That's like I said, that's what I experienced with the lawyer that was dealing with my 17 year-old. Yeah, you could tell, he was just over swamped. Yeah. This is my son's life, take time.

Joann: It sounds like with the 14 year-old, that you had an attorney that was kind of trying to make sure that he stayed in the juvenile system versus having to take pleas and do all that.

Richstenna: Right.

Joann: It sounds like with the charges they were pretty serious charges.

Richstenna: They were.

Joann: Tell me what that process was like for you as an adult because technically speaking they're working for your child. So what was that relationship like for you? Did you feel like your son understood what was going on? Did you feel like you understood what was going on? Any of that?

Richstenna: I understood what was going on, but I felt like he really didn't. So, when I could, to the best of my knowledge, I would try to break down. Because a lawyer can try to break it down, but they're going to use legal terms, which he doesn't know legal terms. You know, seriously. I mean, no. No. I knew what was going on. I would have to... I could see it in a lot of his facial expressions, the confusion. He would say some things he did agree on... I mean that he did was knowledgable of, but a lot of it, naw, my baby didn't know. Even my 17 year-old, he knew, but naw he didn't know. Because when they said bounded over. He was thinking at that point he was on his way to 201 Poplar. The fear in him had rose from zero to 1000 within them few seconds of the judge saying, "You're going to be bounded over." So, they didn't fully understand everything that was going on. It took me to when I go visit or phone calls to say, this is what that meant. And they'd be like, "Oh, okay. I thought that's what that meant, but I wasn't sure."

So, no, definitely not my 14 year-old. He was definitely kind of... when it comes down to this stuff, he was clueless. He was just there. Only thing he understood, to me, was that he screwed up big time and he's in trouble big time. All the consequences, he knew he was going to be away, but I don't think he thought he was going to be away as long. He didn't. Because when they told him... he cried, when they told him his time frame, he cried.

Joann: That's five years?

Richstenna: Five years.

Joann: How far away is Wilder from here?

Richstenna: Somerville. 45, 30 minutes ... 45, maybe 45… straight down 64. Exit 35, yeah 35.

Joann: So how long ... when did he get moved there and how often can you visit?

Richstenna: I can visit whenever. It's just right now, it's just the distance. The distance. I can visit when they have... weekend... they have visits on the weekend and a couple of days throughout the week. So I can go whenever.

Joann: How often are you able to go, with work and everything?

Richstenna: That's the question, right. Whenever I can. I try to get out there as much as I can. I went... I think three weeks ago and he called me, wanting to know when I was going to come back. So, I have to make preparations to get back out there again. Now, they do have it where you can... they have transportation. You can go somewhere downtown and be picked up and they can take you. So they do have ways. My timing was kind of conflicting with the job I was dealing with. So, it was just... I can get out there when I can. I try to get out there every couple of weeks, if possible. I talk to him every week. He calls me a couple of times in the week. So I talk to him, but seeing him personally is totally different, and then when we do go see him, we're down there for three hours with him because I try to take advantage of them little three hours that we're there.

We just talk and play games and... I try to keep his head positive. I don't want to keep telling him where you went wrong. You know you're wrong. You're where you are. You know you're wrong. You wake up and realize that everyday. I just try to give him more of a structural guidance still. I just try to keep their minds focused. I'm a strong believer in God. I try to tell them they got to build that relationship, but right now, I can't help them. Nobody can... money can't help them. Only God can help them. Seriously, I really try to stress to them to build that relationship with God. Get stronger with God more than ever. This is the time to be seeking that man. If you ain't never seeked him before, you really need to start reaching down, seeking him, soul searching. You need to get to know that man. You do. He's needed.

The lack of God is what caused you to do the things you did, if you ask me. I'm just a realist like that. It's just... it is what it is. I just try to encourage them still. It's still kind of frustrating and it hurts, but I don't try to let them know. I don't want them to be where they are and still know that mom’s still kind of feeling some type of way. No, so when they call I just try to be positive. I'm always letting them know that I'm all right. I'm doing good. They feel like as long as I'm good, then they're good. That's kind of what pushes me to keep being cool and being able to keep going. Because they're good. Seriously, my 14 year-old told me, he was like, "Mom, if I wasn't here, I'd probably still be out there doing the same thing." I'm glad he said that, because that [means you] realized somewhere where you went wrong. You realize that you should have been doing something totally different, or what I told you to do, which was not leave the house. I'm glad you realize that.

Joann: What does he say about Wilder? How does he... Do you feel like the environment is... are there any positive things about the place?

Richstenna: Right.

Joann: I shouldn't ask you what is negative. I'm just seeing if there's anything positive that you can point... or anything that he feels like he's getting out of it, other than just being away.

Richstenna: Right. It is. I'm actually more satisfied with him being in Wilder because a lot of his family's from Fayette County. Well, all of his family. His dad's side of the family. That's where they are. So they're very known out there. So the people that are... like, the officers there, they are either related to my son or they know of their people. So that's a relief to me. When he was in juvenile out here, I was nervous. When he went to Nashville, I was definitely nervous. It was like when he finally came out here, it was a relief. I didn't think I'd ever be saying that and be relieved to say that. It's a relief to know that my kids are where they are. Because out here it's more stressful.

I'm going to sleep at night and I know my kids not in the bed going to sleep too. I don't know where they are, mm-hmm (negative). At least when I lay down at night, I know you're there, you're there. I can sleep. I'm more at ease. So I am kind of relieved that he's at Wilder. They have a lot of positive things going on. He goes to school everyday. They deal with... they have him going to psychiatrist, seeing a psychiatrist. He sees her a couple of times a week. We do a counseling session every month, whether it's in person, if I can't get there, it's once a month over the phone. Either way. It's once a month. So there's a lot of kind of beneficial incentives they have. They keep track of their behavior. They let them earn things based on their behavior. They can earn little... they earn money on their, I guess their books or whatever. They earn money while they're in there. They do have little incentives for them.

So, the way he says it, he was like, "Oh ..." because I asked him, he said, it’s like… Now that's the same place my 17 year-old was out before. I told you he just got out in October. He came from the same place. They do have a good little structure there. They do. It's all right. The way my 14 year-old said it is, it's like, he said it's like being at a college dorm. So, it's okay. You know you're not fully facilitated. It looks facilitated but you don't fully have that feel of a facility. You still have a sense of life to an extent. The week I went, he was able to earn a game, a little handheld game, because of his behavior. He feels like it's helping him a little bit. Give him time, definitely, to think about where he went wrong. And talking with his counselor, he's able to reprogram his behaviors as far as decision-making and choices and people he hangs around. So they do. They help. They are trying to help. I just pray that he makes wiser choices when he gets out.

I asked him, "One day you're going to have to see these people, the ones you used to hang around because you're not going to be there forever. What are you going to do?"

He was like, "I never thought of it."

"Well, you need to start thinking about it. Are you gonna... they're going to be like, 'Hey Kevjuan, come on, let's go.' You going to follow, or are you gonna…?" 

"That's what led me into here the last time. I might need to take the other route."

So, you know, I kind of hope he chooses wisely. Same with my 17 year-old, but that's kind of hard to say because at first I was so, so passionate about him changing his actions... his negative actions, when he got out. I was so stern about him having change, and I thought he did but he had me fooled. He really did.

Joann: How long was he at Wilder before October?

Richstenna: He went ... November '19 ... was it November '19? No it was January of 2018 and got out October 2018.

Joann: So not quite a whole year.

Richstenna: Right.

Joann: About 10 months.

Richstenna: Uh huh.

Joann: So-

Richstenna: Was out for three weeks and went back, and has been back ever since.

Joann: This ... before I get to the newer charges, I want to back up a little bit. Prior to ... with both of them going into Wilder, prior to that, you mentioned that they had some smaller citations, kind of like what they call status offenses or whatever. Were either of them on probation for certain periods of time before they got their charges?

Richstenna: Mm-hmm (negative). That's why I kept saying, they got slapped on the wrist, slapped on the wrist, slapped on the wrist.

Joann: Just little citations?

Richstenna: Yeah. I kept telling my kids then, you know, God's not going to keep allowing you... He's like a parent, he's not going to keep allowing you to mess up and not have a reaction behind it. This right here, you need to stop - because this right here, you getting by, you're going to mess up and be in jail, or dead. Keep doing what you're doing.

Joann: What were there... would they have to be, with the citations or with arrests.

Richstenna: Coming to court, and basically come to court, and throw the case out after you come to court type thing.

Joann: No community service hours?

Richstenna: No.

Joann: No restitution?

Richstenna: No.

Joann: Okay. But it was for small things. It was for small little things, right?

Richstenna: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Like I said, KevJuan wanting to steal in a Family Dollar.

Joann: For shopping lifting, for-

Richstenna: Right, yeah.

Joann: For running away-

Richstenna: Right.

Joann: For trespassing.

Richstenna: Right. Right.

Joann: Did you ever have to pay any sort of fines or fees or anything for the courts or even for, you know, sometimes they'll give you a court appointed attorney but then they'll turn around and charge you for it?

Richstenna: I've been blessed. When I say I've been blessed. I've been blessed. God has his hands on this situation, no matter how ugly it is. I didn't have any fees. No, I mean, I would hear. You'll have fees but as far as getting them in the mail, I haven't received... God has been good. Seriously. I do think about that. I can't pay for all this. Come on you guys, I keep telling them. It's like my 17 year-old, his bond is $75,000. Baby, I can't... I'm not, if I had it, I wouldn't.

Joann: $75,000. So he hasn't even been... he hasn't been sentenced officially yet. He's still in pre-trial, what they call just detention?

Richstenna: He's been sentenced, that's why he was bounded over. He's there until he's 18 and once he turns 18, then he goes to 201 and it starts all over again as far as the court finding out how long he's going to be in 201 now. How much time he's going to spend in 201.

Joann: So, you obviously went through a process with your 14 year-old where they gave you a certain sentence, they gave him rather, obviously, what they call in the juvenile courts, a disposition, where they say you're going to be in DYC or whatever it is for five years, okay. Was it a process where you actually were in the court and the judge said this certain thing or did you go through this whole process with the attorney and then they said, okay this is what our agreement’s going to be?

Richstenna: I was in court each time. Each time he was in court, I was in court. They would go over or like you said, the judge will say what he had to say. The lawyer come out after everything was all said and done. The lawyer come out and basically tell us where we're going from there. What to expect. So, I...

Joann: Did you see, was there a process where this was a negotiated thing? Where this was, what they call, like a plea agreement? Or was it something where it was like, okay, I've negotiated the charges down to this and this is the sentence that's associated with the charges. Do you remember any of that? Any of the details?

Richstenna: It was more like a negotiated thing. Because if not, it had to be, because my son didn't have the weapon. My son wasn't the shooter. He was the driver that got away. He took part in taking the money after the situation happened. So the evidence wasn't strong enough to point him, to have the charges stick, that's why they were reduced to what they were. Yeah they did negotiate it down to lesser charges. They did.

Joann: They start with all... I mean, they start with all these charges and to have a charge like a murder charge for something where you did not wield a weapon, it's very, very, very common. So, with your older son, tell me a little bit about him. How long has he been in detention? While he's been going through this, it's been since, you said like around Thanksgiving last year?

Richstenna: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Joann: When did he turn 17?

Richstenna: He turned 17, he got out October 29, he turned 17 in there, October 25. He turned 16 a few days before he went in and turned 17 while he was there. So he's... he'll tell me one thing, because he's so private as far as his emotions, he's private. As far as what he's dealing with, he's private. He'll tell me one thing, but it's like I can feel it, it's not... He tells me he's good, he's... He was dealing with ... basically if you ask... he was dealing with not sleeping good and... yeah, he's not sleeping too good. He said he's doing better with it though. It's like I can't even help my kid, you know.

Joann: Has this been just since he's been at Jail East? Or has this been the whole time that he's been in... he was at... I'm assuming he was in juvenile detention first.

Richstenna: Right, the whole time he's been within the system. Yeah, he's been having trouble sleeping and stuff like that while he was in the juvenile house, they had him on medicine to help him sleep. Same with my 14 year-old. He's dealing with depression, and they have him on Retinol and Zoloft now. It's just... it's taken a toll. It's taken a toll. It's kind of scary, because it's like, how are they going to be after the fact? That's the hard part. I pray that it goes better, for the best. I pray over the situation, I always do. I just try to speak life into it instead of death into it. Try to keep it going from there. They're strong young men. They're taking it well, but I can tell that it's taken a toll at the same time. Due to the fact they don't like... they're not going to tell me. They like to see me strong. So they're not going to tell me anything that's going to make me weaker.

So they're going to tell me that they're all right, but has their mom, I can... I hear it in their voice. I feel it in my soul. I know. My 17 year-old called me today, a couple of hours ago. He was like, "I didn't have nothing to say... I didn't have anything to talk about. I just wanted to call and say I love you." And he wanted to talk to his older brother. So, you know.

Joann: His 19 year-old brother?

Richstenna: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Joann: How is he handling all this? Where is he?

Richstenna: He misses his brothers.

Joann: Does he stay here or-

Richstenna: Mm-hmm (affirmative). He's at work. Currently, right now, he's at work. He misses his brothers. He miss them dearly. He's been a great big brother. He's dealing with it. It's, like I said, it's hard on everybody. He's dealing with it in his own way, but I'm at the point where I'm about to get all of us some counseling. We're about to start counseling soon, because we need it. It's very much needed. Everybody's going through their own little thing and dealing with it in their own little way, but at the end of the day, we all need some help with what we're dealing with. This is kind of beyond our control right about now. He deals with it well. He puts all his emotions... he's into music. He's doing his little music and putting his emotions into his music. He tattoos also. So, if he's not putting it into that, he's drawing it into his tattoos. He's dealing with it.

Joann: He has an outlet. He has those outlets.

Richstenna: Right. He does. I thank God for that because I'm like, I don't know... he'll go crazy if he didn't. Seriously. He would. I've seen him take in and explode. I remember KevJuan - and this was right before KevJuan, this is not that long before KevJuan got caught up in this situation, I had to call the police on him because KevJuan and I got into a scuffle.

He came home, first of all, I was at work. He wasn't supposed to be gone. When I came home, he wasn't here. His brother had told him not to go, he ended up leaving anyway. Came home the next day. He came in, and it started with me just asking him, "Where have you been?" He had a phone I had took previously from him. I didn't have a way to contact him. It escalated. We got to fumbling. Really we're tussling. My kid, like I said, he's 5' 8", he's probably. Well now I'm probably 10 pounds heavier than him. At the time, I know he was 10 pounds heavier than me.

So, with that being said, I had to. He wasn't... we're wrestling. That's what we were, we're wrestling. He never put his physical punch, but we're wrestling and that was enough for me to... as a mom, oh gosh. I'm about to try to knock your head off because... No, I'm your mom. I'm not that dude in the street. I'm not that person in the street, but if you want to act like it. I'm about to knock your head off. You don't wrestle with me. You don't do... I flipped. I just... no. Before I knew it was like I... we were tussling for a minute. I'm not about to do this, because I'll be done hurt you. I'm going to call the police. He ended up having an assault charge. They ended up dropping it. They ended up having an assault charge. Now that's not what I want, but baby, I'd rather have them come get you than me put my hands on you, because I'm going to hurt you. Seriously.

No. No. I used to think my daddy was crazy when he say, "I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out." Has a parent, I understand. I do. I used to think that, "you'll take me out? You can't ..." But I understand. It was... that was not that long... maybe a month and a half before the situation that happened in November. So that was just recent. But they... yeah. My oldest son was here at the time that happened, but he was kind of like he didn't know exactly what was going on. He heard us, but he didn't just know what was going on because he was in the midst of in and out the door. But yeah, he... yeah.

Joann: Sounds like he's... it sounds like he's got his thing together is what it sounds like.

Richstenna: He pretty much does. He does. I tell him all the time because he wants to be an entrepreneur. He's so multi-talented. He's into marketing sales now, where they go traveling. He loves his job, he really does. He wants to be... he says all the time, he just kind of recently told me how he wants to be the big brother to when they get out, they be like, "Wow! You did this." He wants them to be happy for him. I was like wow that's some major impressive stuff. The big brother wants the little brothers... that's major to me. You don't have that this day and time. It was like, wow that's so sweet. He wants them to be... He told me they need structuring and he feels like he can give it to them now because he's a little bit older, his mind set is different, it's stronger.

He was like, but... he told Kevjuan when we went out there to go see him, he was like, "I don't want you to be like me, but you see that what you're doing isn't working. So do the things like I'm doing. Positive things. You know what I'm saying, so you can go the right way. You don't have to be in places like this." So he does... he's doing great. He's doing great for himself. He really is.

Joann: It sounds like if he's going to be in the same place for five years, that's stability and a lot of times, I know they have a whole re-entry plan and re-entry services towards the end of that time.

Richstenna: They do and that's part of what they... that's part of their curriculum with them out there. They do do that. That's part of what they talk about in their counseling sessions. When it gets to the end of their time span, the re-entry program, and even with my 17 year-old, once he got out, we were going to get him some counseling and get the ball rolling out here, to keep him in balanced. Therefore you can stay on the right track out here. Same with my 14 year-old once... yeah, we will take those steps and measures.

Joann: I'm sure it'll be different, just the sheer amount of time. Having gone in at a younger age and spending that much more time in. So tell me what charges are y'all dealing with, with your 17 year-old, and are you still in the process of fighting the charges or trying to figure out what's next?

Richstenna: It's basically a time span, waiting process. Like I said, he's there until he's 18. He just turned 17 in October. After 18, once he... his charges are aggravated robbery. I think it's one, two counts of aggravated robbery. So those are his charges. He's, right now, just there until 18. Once he’s 18, he'll be turned over to 201 and that ... it starts all over. Going to court, finding out how long you'll be in 201. Yeah.

Joann: So they don't-

Richstenna: When I thought I was done. Yeah, I'm just kind of getting started all over again. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Joann: They... they don't give him certain charges that you can just go with and be like, okay this is the sentence for it? They just make you wait all this time?

Richstenna: Because he's 17, they don't ... he's pretty much being tried has an adult. But it's like you're not legally an adult and you're crime wasn't, I guess, extensive enough to fully charge you has an adult. So we have to detain you... see what I'm saying? Right?

Joann: That is just... why do they have that policy? I've heard people talk about this, but I've never actually spoken with somebody as a parent who's had to deal with it. Because it's like... you know what, all the time he's serving right now, could be applied-

Richstenna: That could be counted towards his-

Joann: You would think that would be applied. It probably... when it comes down to it, if they give him a certain sentence, they probably will apply his detention time towards the sentence but why can't they just charge him has a juvenile-

Richstenna: Once.

Joann: And get it done then.

Richstenna: Yup.

Joann: So he doesn't even have an official sentence, he's just waiting?

Richstenna: Basically until 18.

Joann: So the DA can give him an adult charge.

Richstenna: Yup.

Joann: Okay. So, how do you feel about your attorney support with that? Do you have... have you had to go through more than one or are you working with somebody that you-

Richstenna: At this point I'm having to go through more than one because… Because he's no longer in the juvenile system. So I was dealing with juvenile appointed lawyers. Now I'm about to have to find my own... appoint my own lawyer. So, I'm all over again again. I'm seeing how this rides out, and see what they say. I'm kind of waiting on word now to see what I need to do, or where I'm at with him. Because this is ridiculous. It's like... I mean, wow. You just sit there and wait. I'm just waiting.

Joann: What is visitation like in terms of being... can you go and see him there? What are the restrictions and all of that?

Richstenna: Right now, he doesn't have any restrictions. I guess because he's doing well. He doesn't have any restrictions, they are ... what is it? Two days a week, and I think once on the weekend, something like that. Thirty minutes, an hour. He does have open visitations.

Joann: How long does it take for you to get there, and how often do you actually get to go out and see him?

Richstenna: Actually, it doesn't take that long. Not even, maybe 12 minutes because I'm right here by the freeway, jump on, jump off. It doesn't take that long. That's blessing. Really, I can see him how often has I choose. It's times when I don't, because they need to see me strong. So it's times when I just can't. I just can't. Seriously, I can't. So he'll call me. We talk all the time. We do. He called me this morning. He calls me almost every day. So we talk all the time but it's just times I just can't. I can't. I know I can build myself up and say I'm going to be strong this day. I'm going to be strong this day, but once I get into there and start talking, I can't. So, I don't want them to see me like that. I don't want to see them like that. It's bad enough I talk to you and I know where you are, but to see you like that. Sometimes I just can't.

I have opportunities all the time. Opportunity is open, it's open. I just can't.

Joann: The ability to be able to pull yourself to a certain place, to be able to get there.

Richstenna: Sometimes I just can't.

Joann: What about your 19 year-old? Does he ever get a chance to go and visit or does he go with you? Or does he go on his own?

Richstenna: He hasn't been yet. Everybody such an emotional wreck.

Joann: It's only been a few months, too.

Richstenna: Right. So he's like... I don't want to keep rushing him because his brother wants him to come see him. He asked him to come see him today. It's like we're all so just…

Joann: It's fresh.

Richstenna: Yeah. You know it's... oh. I just. He talks to him often. Whenever he calls, if I don't talk to him, I let them talk and they talk and sometimes I don't even talk to him because it's like I talk to you all the time, you need to talk to your brother. Your brother needs you too. So sometimes it's like, don't even worry about talking to me. You guys talk. Or, just so happen, one day last week, I was able to talk to both to them at the same time. Do a conference call, we were all talking together. The visitation is very much open. It is. He doesn't, he hasn't been yet. He hasn't been to go see him yet.

Joann: I know that they just changed the fees. The phone... how much it costs. Tell me about that.

Richstenna: I'll put... first of all they charge you to put the money on there. That's just... ridiculous to me. They charge you to put the money on there. About five dollars. They charge you to put the money on there. I can talk, maybe, I think 15 minutes and I think it'll take... I don't know if they say it's 95 cents or 92 cents... however it goes, right. To me, it doesn't seem like it's that high. Because it's like I can talk for maybe, seems like 15 minutes and it seems like they only took two and a half dollars out. So to me, that's kind of pretty good. To me. I've heard a lot of people complain but it's like... I be sitting here talking and I'll think about the minutes. It's like, "oh shoot. The minutes." But then when I hear the balance, it's only like a dollar or something or two dollars taken out. So it's like, okay.

It's not that bad. We've been talking about 15, 20 minutes. That ain't that bad. But I hear a lot of people complaining about those prices. I don't know if it's the daytime, the rates are different or if the evening the rates-

Joann: It's all relative.

Richstenna: Right.

Joann: I mean, you know. It used to be ... what? You and I remember… you know, you could just put 25 cents in and talk for hours or whatever. So it's like... it's all relative.

Richstenna: That's so true.

Joann: With phones being... if you have an unlimited thing. So that is a way that... One of the things I always try to ask the parents, is how much extra money ... you have to put money towards commissary?

Richstenna: I do. It's like good gracious. Y'all still costing and it seem like you costing more now than ever. Jesus. I do and they charge for that. They charge you to put... it's like, come on. You're getting money already for my kid to be here.

Joann: But you're not getting... do you also get a charge just for the nights that he is in detention? [No.] Okay. So it's mainly what you're seeing in terms of the charges are like the phone charges and the food, commissary charges? Do you have those types of charges with your 14 year-old as well?

Richstenna: Well my goal, with, as far as me, it’s the transportation, you know, the gas, the... right. That's the charges with him. His phone calls are free. So I don't have to worry about putting money on the phone for him. They do comps... Because he's a juvenile, they do commissary, I guess because the state [reimburses], so like once a month, they give them commissary. So that... I don't have to worry about that with him. Like I said, mine is just more or less finances for the transportation or the time, you know what I’m saying, for the trip. Yeah.

Joann: Well, I think that we're... I can talk to you about this stuff for hours. But I'm trying to think of anything... is there anything? I thank you for being so open and honest about just everything, because I know that the hardest part about all this is that they're just not here. And, like you said, I'm glad you have your 19 year-old home with you.

Richstenna: I am. That's part of my sanity. That's cause I don't know what I'd do with no kids. I mean, like I tell them, it's hard being here. Just now, I'm used to hearing somebody's voice. Going to bed at night, I'm used to going and peeping in on them. Throughout the night when I go used to the bathroom, I'm used to peeping in on them. My 19 year-old calls me, he calls me creepy. I'm going to forever peep in on them. It's like I just, I'm used to that. I find myself... Well, I don't do it as often but I still find myself looking into their room. I miss that. Seriously. I do. Sometimes, I’m sitting here thinking and just laugh to myself because I hear their voice or think of something they do or something like that. Yeah.

Joann: Well, I would love to hear your thoughts about ways that you could be supported has a parent. In different parts of this process, things that you think would really be helpful, that you would need, in terms of support. You mentioned counseling, obviously, with family counseling and dealing with it. But I'm curious, just in the contact with the system and the various ways you've been, you know... How could things be better? What would you need?

Richstenna: I feel like... see, before my kids got into this, I saw it getting to this. I was trying to find places to go that could prevent things like this. My 17 year-old went through JIFF [Juvenile Intervention and Faith-Based Follow-Up]. He likes to deal in church functions. So I always have him in church functions. His church... the church that he goes to, he goes to the Methodist Christ Central, right here on Poplar. They deal with places like SOS, linking up through SOS through the summer time. SOS will help with blighted areas. My son learned how to do roofing with them. So I was always trying to find ways to keep him out of trouble. I think that's what they need. The State of Tennessee needs recreation for kids. Definitely inner-city kids that you know, they need an outlet. You don't have an outlet, you're going to get in trouble. Period, point blank. They don't have anything. So, give them something to keep them occupied, and you'll reduce some of this crime. That's the way I see it. Give them something other than nothing. An they'll be all right.

If they had something in line where they can keep these kids occupied, after school hours. You know, after school, something they can be occupied for a couple of hours throughout the week, they'll be all right. It'll keep them doing something other than being in trouble. It's just… period. It helped. It will help. Because it helped. I noticed when my son was doing those things, he wasn't in trouble. He played football, played track, and he was a star. He shined. Always was participating in something or some kind of function here, he was fine. But the minute he was idle, was the minute he was getting into trouble. So they come up with some kind of plan to keep these kids positively constructed, they'll be all right. Seriously. With that they need... you can throw in some counseling. I mean, seriously. In the same facility. Seriously. Real talk. It's a lot that can be done. But they're not trying to do nothing.

You can't say the state don't have money because you ride to Collierville, Cordova, and everywhere else, you see construction going on here, you see construction going on here. Quit tearing up these roads, and put that money towards something else. It’s just simple. They're frivolously using money. Their bonus checks... give us your bonus checks and we'll be able to do something in this state. I mean, for real. Cut down on some of your expenses, we'll be able to do something in this state. But it's... I wish I had it, because I could show you better than I can tell you. I know that. Real talk. I know that. It's just a lot that can be done.

Joann: I always wondered too if there was... if there was opportunities for, like you said, for them to just have more options of things to do but I'm curious too, if you had options... if you were worried about your kid being out late, to call... some option to call other than the police? What... who would that be? And how would they help? In a way that doesn't just get them sucked in-

Richstenna: To the system-

Joann: To being on the-

Richstenna: Negative side of things all the time.

Joann: These are things that people are working on. That's one of the reasons we're working on this film. There are communities that are starting to divest from their carceral systems and invest in their communities. So, hopefully we'll learn some lessons and maybe some people around here will start to use some of those options. But anyway, if there's... if you feel good about this?

Richstenna: I do. I do.

Joann: Well, thank you.

Richstenna: No problem. Thank you for even taking the time to listen. Thank you, seriously.